與談人：傑米．派克（Jamie Peck）

紀錄者：黃開洋

「以新自由主義為人所知——強調市場力量、個人主義及國家新用途——的政治－經濟計畫，在1970年開始在一波波的擴張、鞏固和危機中不斷地變異重生，而且在2008年全球金融危機及Covid-19疫情期間過後持續如此作用。」（The political-economic project known as neoliberalism—emphasizing market forces, individualism, and the repurposing of the state—has mutated, repeatedly, through successive waves of expansion, consolidation, and crisis, since the 1970s. And it has continued to do so in the aftermath of the global financial crisis, beginning in 2008, and through the time of the pandemic.）——傑米．派克（Jamie Peck）

 

簡介：在2022年12月15日的下午，「楊楠子人文學術講座」[1]邀請了加拿大英屬哥倫比亞大學地理系傑米．派克（Jamie Peck）教授來到台大地理系，和學生面對面分享自己的心路歷程。傑米．派克教授是經濟地理學者，畢業於英國曼徹斯特大學地理系，並在該系取得博士學位。他的研究關心經濟地理、都市再結構、勞動管制與國家治術，是一位制度政治經濟學者。

本場活動提供台大地理系研究生與人文地理學人物面對面的機會，考量研究生在地理學關心領域廣泛下背景多元，所以拆分為兩節：第一部分請傑米．派克教授分享自己的學思歷程，還有為什麼當年選擇了經濟地理作為一生的學術志業；第二部分則請教授回答在場研究生的問題。兩節活動都反映了派克教授身為研究新自由主義最資深的經濟地理學者[2]，從他的親身經歷所培育出的地理觀點。以下演講內容，經傑米．派克教授同意，以綱要的形式發表。

I. 成為經濟地理學者[3]

a.派克教授是英國人。他回憶在他還是曼徹斯特大學一名研究生的時候，柴契爾夫人剛上台執政。在柴契爾夫人初掌政權的年代，那時的英國才正要讓新自由主義邁向挑戰二戰戰後共識的道路上。

b.在1983年，派克教授準備畢業，那時英國正經歷嚴重的經濟蕭條。因為柴契爾夫人的貨幣政策，他找不到工作。正當教授想好準備回家倚靠父母時，他敲了敲他指導老師的門。派克教授的指導老師請他進來聊聊，沒想到一個的博士班獎學金突然意外地有缺額，所以他決定繼續唸書。最後，派克教授就以政府的勞動市場政策為主題，撰寫他的博士論文。

c.當時的英國柴契爾政府關注在供給面而不談需求面（以及工作創造），只致力於減少通膨、降低失業工人保留工資[4]，並鼓勵企業家精神。

d.這種要求政府退場，達成小國家與市場自由的新自由主義的意識形態與自由市場理論，事實上卻是屬於政府的國家計畫一部分，而且是柴契爾政府主導的勞動市場改革重點。

e.與其他社會科學相比，在有關「新自由主義」的文獻中，地理學佔有重要地位，比起社會學、政治學和毫無疑問較之經濟學多出許多。派克教授說，作為學術社群，地理學在社會科學中的規模不算大，但是研究新自由主義的論文中，多年累積至今有一半的論文篇數都是來自地理學家。

F.自1980年代以來，派克教授持續投入新自由主義的研究。在1990年代中回到英國教書之前，他還曾在澳洲墨爾本進行博士後研究，並花了一年的時間在美國的約翰霍普金斯大學擔任哈克尼斯研究員（Harkness Fellowship）[5]，成為著名馬克思主義地理學家大衛．哈維的同事。那時在巴爾的摩的他，開始對美國產生疑問：為什麼沒有人研究國家？國家在美國的社會與經濟生活扮演的角色是個有趣的盲點，對批判社會科學學界也是如此（如果與歐洲對比，國家的行為是會被仔細檢視的）。從此，派克教授的研究密切關注美國，並在2000年開始長期定居北美。他看到許多對於經濟地理學來說，是個進行國家與國家轉型研究的契機：在這裡任教，正是能就近在美國「自家」（at home）從事新自由主義研究的好機會。

II. 問答時間

提問階段，我們總共搜集了四個問題。

a.第一位研究生問道，他關心數位資本主義的多元變異，提問的是在當代也有科層組織人類學的研究時，經濟地理該採取的研究方法是什麼。

b.派克教授回答，無論是金融還是數位資本主義都是當代經濟地理學的研究焦點，經濟地理經常在經濟變遷中從事「領先前沿」的研究。經濟地理過去以產業劃分學科知識（例如：電子產業、汽車產業等等）；現今經濟地理則更常用全球生產網絡（GPNs）架構，或連結地方經濟發展的制度研究為主。

c.就研究方法上，地理學者傾向於是「萬事通」（jack of all trades）。相對於其他專業領域學者鎖定特定取徑，地理學以多種方法補足單一研究方法的缺陷，要義在於創意；地理學不是專才，而是擅長組合創造新事物。

d.第二個研究生問題，則是他希望研究台灣在深海漁業的鮪魚實作，但是感覺以全球生產網絡或價值鏈等分析工具還是不到位，而關於海上跨境還有很多懸而未決的問題，想請教授提供一些評論。

e.派克教授給出第一個的具體建議是一本推薦書目，是美國俄亥俄州州立大學地理系教授貝基·曼斯菲爾德（Becky Mansfield）的政治生態學研究，她是該領域的研究先驅。派克教授給出的第二個具體建議，則是「到一艘船上去看看吧！」如果是自己的研究生，派克教授說就算是在加拿大他現在所任教的大學，他也會鼓勵有這般問題意識的研究生至少到船上實際走一遭，感受那個產業的樣態。

f.順著教授鼓勵上船的問題，第三個來自研究生的問題，則問到當前似乎在強調分殊化的學術產業分工下，面對人文與自然地理的分野加大，地理學相對其他學科，該如何自處？

g.派克教授回答，相對於其他科系——例如人類學者一直以民族誌自豪，地理學界則一直使用彼時最酷炫的研究方法，比如1960年代的量化研究風潮，當時的地理學就是量化研究為主。「在我任教的大學，當前參與觀察及民族誌也是在研究生中蔚為風潮，所以再一次的，地理學者可能並非各研究方法的專家，但是能夠採取方法混用的方式，將各種取徑編織在一塊。」

h.最後，一位研究生代他人提問，當前正在進行關於基隆作為大台北都會區一環下的郊區研究時，援引了尼爾．布倫納（Neil Brenner）的全域都市化（planetary urbanization）概念，卻被批評郊區在與都市的權力不對等情況下，是否有研究必要的挑戰。

i.派克教授評論說，最近都市研究正出現一些令人不安的趨勢，這個跨領域場域不幸地越來越兩極分化：一些都市地理學者對更概括化的理論持懷疑態度。但是，在地方特殊性和必然橫跨地點與情境的理論主張之間，兩者必須取得平衡。這些介於地方際遇和更抽象理論主張之中的「摩擦」，一直是長期以來都市研究活力的重要來源。

 

後記：

我們很高興傑米．派克教授陪我們度過了一個充實的下午。教授無論是經驗分享還是問題回答，都融入了源自個人生命故事提出的歷史觀察及理論思考，個案及理論兼具，向研究生現身說法，解答研究生疑惑。派克教授說，我們不可能企圖在冰河學、文化地理學及地理資訊科學中間找出一個統一一致的地理學研究方法，這就是地理學的多元跨領域學科性質。雖然很多學校已經已經沒有地理系了，但他還是喜歡歸屬在地理學者的範疇下。感謝傑米．派克教授，向我們呈現了1980年代的經濟地理學萌芽藍圖。

 

 

英文原稿：

The outline of the Yang Nantsi Lecture: Jamie Peck’s discussion with geography postgraduate students

Discussant: Jamie PECK

Recorder: Kai-Yang HUANG

 

The political-economic project known as neoliberalism—emphasizing market forces, individualism, and the repurposing of the state—has mutated, repeatedly, through successive waves of expansion, consolidation, and crisis, since the 1970s. And it has continued to do so in the aftermath of the global financial crisis, beginning in 2008, and through the time of the pandemic.——Jamie Peck

 

Introduction:

On the afternoon of December 15, 2022, the “Yang Nantsi Lecture on Humanities Academic”[1] invited Jamie Peck, professor of geography from the University of British Columbia, Canada, to come to the Department of Geography of National Taiwan University to share his thoughts face-to-face with students. Professor Peck is an economic geographer, graduated from the University of Manchester, UK, where he obtained his doctoral degree. As an institutional political economist, his research is concerned with economic geography, urban restructuring, labor regulation, and statecraft. This face-to-face discussion provides an opportunity for graduate students in geography to meet with a leading figure in human geography. Considering students have diverse backgrounds in a wide range of geography discipline, the discussion is divided into two parts: in the first part, Professor Peck shares details of his academic background and his lifelong career as an economic geographer; in the second part, he answered questions from graduate students. Both parts of the discussion reflect the views of Professor Peck from his personal experience as the most senior economic geographer studying neoliberalism.[2] The following content is the outline of the discussion with permission from Professor Peck.

I. Becoming an Economic Geographer[3]

a. When Jamie Peck was a graduate student, Margaret Thatcher had just been elected prime minister of the United Kingdom and had come to power, and neoliberalism was beginning to challenge the post-war consensus.

b. In 1983, when Professor Peck graduated, the country was going through a severe recession. He couldn’t find a job. Before going home to live with his parents, he knocked on his advisor’s door, he was invited in for a chat. A PhD scholarship had become unexpectedly available, so he decided to continue his studies and wrote a doctoral dissertation on the theme of government labor-market policies.

c. Thatcher government was focused on the supply side of the labor market, ignoring the demand side (and job creation). The government of the time was committed to reducing inflation, lowering the reservation wages of unemployed people, and encouraging entrepreneurship.

d. Neoliberal ideology and free market theory talk about a small state and the liberation of markets by means of governmental withdrawal. But neoliberalism is actually a project of the state. The Thatcher government’s labor-market reforms illustrate this.

e. Compared to other social sciences, geography has had a prominent place in the literature on ‘neoliberalism’, much more so than sociology or political science, and certainly more so than economics. As an academic community, geography is not large, but for many years more than half of the papers on neoliberalism were written by geographers.

f. Professor Peck has studied neoliberalism more or less continuously since the 1980s. He did his postdoctoral in Australia before taking a teaching in the U.K.. In the mid-1990s, he spent a year in the United States as a Harkness fellow, becoming for a time a colleague of David Harvey at the Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore. There, he discovered the role of state in the social and economic life of the United States is a curious blindspot, even for the critical social sciences (certainly when contrasted to Europe, where the actions of the state are closely scrutinized). From that time, he started working intensively on the United States, before relocating permanently to North America in 2000. Professor Peck saw many opportunities for economic-geographical work on the state and state transformation. This was an opportunity to study neoliberalism ‘at home’ in America.

 

II. Q & A

a. The first graduate student said that he was concerned about the multiple variations of digital capitalism and about which research methods should be adopted in economic geography when there are also bureaucratic anthropological studies being conducted in the contemporary era.

b. Peck replied that both finance and digital capitalism are important foci for contemporary research. Economic geographers often work on the ‘leading edges’ of economic change. In the past, economic geographers typically organized their expertise according to industry (e.g. electronics industry, automobile industry, and so on). Today, they are more likely to work with frameworks like global production networks (GPNs), or on institutions linked to local economic development.

c. In terms of research methods, geographers tend to be the “jack of all trades,” rather than specialists in a particular approach (such as ethnography with anthropologists). Geographers tend to be good at combining methods and working in creative ways.

d. The second question by graduate students was what comment Peck would give on his study proposal to Taiwan’s tuna practice in deep-sea fisheries. This graduate student thinks that analytical tools such as global production networks or value chains have yet to be capitalized upon and that there are lots of unresolved questions concerning maritime cross-border problems.

e. Peck said that Professor Becky Mansfield’s (Ohio State) work in political ecology has been pioneering in this area. His other suggestion was to get practical experience on a ship itself.

f. The third question is about the division between humanities and physical geography. How should geography relate to other disciplines?

g. Peck replied that in the university where he teaches, participatory observation and ethnography are also popular among graduate students right now. Again, while they may not be specialists in these methods, geographers tend to be adept at weaving approaches together and mixing methods.

h. The fourth question came from a graduate student asked on behalf of others from where he was currently conducting research in the suburbs of Keelung, part of the greater Taipei metropolitan area. He cited Neil Brenner’s concept of planetary urbanization and talked about the power differentials between the suburbs and the city.

i. Professor Peck commented that there have been some disconcerting trends in urban studies recently, an interdisciplinary field that unfortunately has become increasingly polarized: Some urban geographers are skeptical of more generalized theories, but a balance has to be struck between the particularity of places and the role of theory claims that necessarily span sites and situations. The ‘friction’ between these—localized circumstances and more abstract theory claims—has long been an important source of dynamism in urban studies.

 

Epilogue:

We are very glad that Professor Jamie Peck spent a pleasant afternoon with us. The discussion was fulfilling, especially where Professor Peck shared his life experiences and responded to students’ questions. He talked to graduate students about his own experience and answered their questions. Professor Peck does not think it likely that the field of geography will ever have a unified approach or method, spanning glaciology, cultural geography and geographic information science. By its nature, geography is a pluralist, interdisciplinary field. Although some universities no longer have geography departments, he is still happy to remain part of the community of geographers. Thanks to Professor Peck, we have a better understanding of the discipline of economic geography, what it looks like today, and how critical approaches from economic geography have impacted the field of geography since 1980s.

 

[1] 「楊楠子人文學術講座」為台大校友廖茂雄先生紀念已故夫人——台大地理環境資源學系系友楊楠子女士，捐款台大地理系支持人文學術交流活動。過往曾邀請保羅．羅賓斯（Paul Robbins）（2017）、尼爾．布倫納（Neil Brenner）（2018）、羅伯．基欽（Rob Kitchen）（2019）等國際學者來台演講。今年（2022），傑米．派克教授在12月9日給予的講題則是「形勢中國」（Conjunctural China）。詳見：https://www.facebook.com/yangnantsulectures/

[2] 傑米．派克自從他的博士論文開始就進行新自由主義研究，詳見：Peck, J. A. (1988) The Structure and Segmentation of Local Labour Markets: Aspects of the Geographical Anatomy of Youth Employment in Great Britain, unpublished Ph.D. thesis, Manchester, Department of Geography, University of Manchester.

[3] 有關更詳盡的學思歷程訪談，請見：Peck, J., & Dawes, S. (2020). Contextualizing Neoliberalism : An Interview with Jamie Peck. In S. Dawes & M. Lenormand (Eds.), Neoliberalism in Context: Governance, Subjectivity and Knowledge (pp. 289-309). https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-030-26017-0_16/

[4] 保留工資是指勞工參與勞動市場的最低要求，也就是勞工接受一份工作時要求的最低工資，可以說是勞動時間的機會成本。

[5] 一個由美國聯邦基金會（Commonwealth Fund）以創辦人安娜．哈克尼斯（Anna M. Harkness）為名設立的計畫，鼓勵外國公務員、商業人士、新聞記者等多個領域人士至美國進修。

[1] “Yang Nantsi Lecture on Humanities Academic” commemorates the late wife of Mr. Mao-Hsiung Liao, an alumnus of National Taiwan University, Ms. Nan-Tsi Yang, an alumnus of the NTU Department of Geography, and donates to the Department to support humanities and academic exchange activities. In the past, Paul Robbins (2017), Neil Brenner (2018), Rob Kitchen (2019) have been invited to give speeches in Taiwan. For this year (2022), the speech Professor Peck gave on December 9th is “Conjunctural China.” For details, see: https://www.facebook.com/yangnantsulectures/

[2] Peck has studied neoliberalism since his doctoral research. See Peck, J. A. (1988) The Structure and Segmentation of Local Labour Markets: Aspects of the Geographical Anatomy of Youth Employment in Great Britain, unpublished Ph.D. thesis, Manchester, Department of Geography, University of Manchester.

[3] For a more detailed biographical interview, see Peck, J., & Dawes, S. (2020). Contextualizing neoliberalism : an interview with Jamie Peck. In S. Dawes & M. Lenormand (Eds.), Neoliberalism in Context: Governance, Subjectivity and Knowledge (pp. 289-309). https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-030-26017-0_16/